tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4905080602885676490.post8379338084773649188..comments2024-03-17T22:38:03.242+01:00Comments on zmkc: Ties that Bindzmkchttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08972549292961948240noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4905080602885676490.post-16294452751433136872017-07-02T05:54:20.549+02:002017-07-02T05:54:20.549+02:00I've just posted about a couple of experiences...I've just posted about a couple of experiences I've had lately that inspire me to try a little harder to transcend the self. If each person on earth at least tried occasionally things would have to be better than they are currently. But not transcend as in the transcendental meditation movement which seems to be very introverted - transcend in an outgoing way, with generosity and warmth toward others. I fear it's never going to happen, but you can live in hopezmkchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08972549292961948240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4905080602885676490.post-2752198307479985112017-06-24T12:26:12.440+02:002017-06-24T12:26:12.440+02:00I think that's correct. Transcending the self ...I think that's correct. Transcending the self is fundamental to all religious perspectives and moral thinking. Unfortunately, I think that that perspective and its corresponding language lies largely in abeyance, or is so distorted that it is hardly recognisable.<br /><br />G. Steiner's question is relevant here: what if there is no North of the future? What does that imply for culture and art? In short, the loss of a Christian/ religious perspective has implications for the arts and culture and not just for the tenor of individual and social life.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4905080602885676490.post-83341473766291425572017-06-24T11:40:13.547+02:002017-06-24T11:40:13.547+02:00I was being flippant - although overcoming selfish...I was being flippant - although overcoming selfishness and greed is the essence of the Christian message, on which Western culture is supposed to be based, the sad truth is that human nature is not always obedient to the demands of morality. Every system - especially the most idealistic - fails when humans get involvedzmkchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08972549292961948240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4905080602885676490.post-69364565147309141012017-06-24T10:23:20.982+02:002017-06-24T10:23:20.982+02:00But that would entail going against a four hundred...But that would entail going against a four hundred year old tradition of individualism and narrow self- interest (" life is nasty, brutish.."). At the very least it would entail overturning forty years of neoliberalism. Not so easy, methinks.<br /><br />I'm sure your uncle was an honourable person but surely we can entertain the possibility that it has been the greed and the selfishness of rich people that has led to many of society's current predicaments ( climate change, for example)?<br /><br />On the other hand, I like aspects of what you say about care and responsibility and that obviously must remain * part* of any reasonable way forward ( along the lines of Macintyre's ' rational dependent animals'). All I'm suggesting is that the language of the ' good and the responsible' has often been employed to further class interests.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4905080602885676490.post-25733177248970131992017-06-24T09:29:33.095+02:002017-06-24T09:29:33.095+02:00Look all I'm advocating is the elimination of ...Look all I'm advocating is the elimination of greed and selfishness - should be pretty easy, surelyzmkchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08972549292961948240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4905080602885676490.post-35758214879642761102017-06-24T09:01:59.946+02:002017-06-24T09:01:59.946+02:00But people haven't always accepted inequalitie...But people haven't always accepted inequalities ( see E. p. Thompson on Patricians and Plebs). One of the great movements in modern history has for been greater equality..its a central plank in the modern social imaginary. And in recent years there have been ( successful) attempts to reduce inequality. And I'm afraid that did come about as a result of " state socialism". So, I'm not quite sure why you think it's inevitable/ desirable?<br /><br />Also, your view does sound similar to: black people, Jews, women or the poor should accept their station in life. The ' ties that bind' have often been ones of dependency and/ or brutality. Which is, I'm sure, quite comforting if a person is one of the ' responsible and the good'; less so, if he is on the " receiving" end.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4905080602885676490.post-56490176694405689162017-06-24T07:27:29.418+02:002017-06-24T07:27:29.418+02:00As I said, I do not believe the structures of domi...As I said, I do not believe the structures of dominance will ever be undermined and therefore the rich and powerful need to operate within a system imbued with expectations of their responsibility. I described my uncle as behaving in this way in the post before this - his wealth came from his father's expert stockbroking, which may well have included investment in what would now be viewed as unethical businesses. If an ethical approach is applied to all moneymaking in the future, what happened in the past becomes a matter of historical regret and a lesson to be learned from. I do realise this, unfortunately, is not going to happen, that corruption is worse and more widespread than it has ever been and will continue and also that it is the source of most poverty in the world. The solution is not in my view state socialism but a self imposed code of honour - and please don't even bother coming back with your "Please, please, tell me you're winding me up" scoffing, because no, I am not - except inasmuch as I freely admit that I have no idea at all how to recreate a society in which the rich do see their wealth as carrying responsibilities with it, in the way my uncle did, and in which businesses run on the principle of the triple bottom line. As to women, I certainly think that we have been mistaken in pursuing rights to work as equals within a workplace constructed for males, whose reproductive role is quite different from ours and who therefore have never factored in the needs our reproductive role entails. zmkchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08972549292961948240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4905080602885676490.post-19955549117675816382017-06-23T23:36:51.882+02:002017-06-23T23:36:51.882+02:00" rather than address inequality..." . P..." rather than address inequality..." . Please, please tell me you're winding me up? While you're absolutely right that some level of inequality is inevitable any progressive thought depends, in my humble opinion, on undermining the structures of dominance.<br /><br />The rich being good and responsible? Er..what if they became rich on the back of not being ' good and responsible' ? Have you read Stiglitz's The Price of Inequality? There's also a fascinating book by Will Hutton on the importance of fairness.<br /><br />Talking of which...I think the experiment you are alluding to is based on Rawls.<br /><br />Should we also say that women don't want power and that men should just be good and responsible to them? <br /><br />Billoo.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4905080602885676490.post-53023362015303456652017-06-23T20:43:00.153+02:002017-06-23T20:43:00.153+02:00I shall seek that out and read it.
As to class, I...I shall seek that out and read it. <br />As to class, I think that will always be with us and that therefore, rather than trying to address inequality, which is ineradicable - plus distributing power equally actually means providing people who don't want power with power - we should look entirely at how to ensure that the relationship between the powerful and the powerless, the rich and the poor is one where the powerful and the rich feel a duty and inclination to be kind and good and responsible etc. Someone told me about something called, I think, the Blind Experiment, where you have to design a society in which you may end up as the unemployed, illiterate person with a disabled child or the prime minister or anything in between, so you have to ensure that, wherever you end up within the structure you design, you do not suffer. It's an interesting idea.zmkchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08972549292961948240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4905080602885676490.post-79530339987104061772017-06-23T20:39:26.570+02:002017-06-23T20:39:26.570+02:00Do you think Captain Mannering would have been a c...Do you think Captain Mannering would have been a community leader? Is the phrase interchangeable for pushy git? I never knowzmkchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08972549292961948240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4905080602885676490.post-72169722954402557782017-06-22T21:33:44.073+02:002017-06-22T21:33:44.073+02:00Interesting. David Goodhart wrote along similar li...Interesting. David Goodhart wrote along similar lines a few years ago in a fascinating article ('Too Diverse?').<br /><br />Also, interesting how discussions of class have been displaced by a preoccupation with identity. And no mention of how the so- called working classes have turned to populism and right- wing ideologies?<br /><br />Billoo.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4905080602885676490.post-64071161187579487892017-06-21T12:13:13.977+02:002017-06-21T12:13:13.977+02:00I wonder if it had, to use that awful phrase "...I wonder if it had, to use that awful phrase "community leaders"?Steerforthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07627936539372313828noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4905080602885676490.post-74551424925768141092017-06-21T11:52:13.485+02:002017-06-21T11:52:13.485+02:00When I was a child I lived in a street off the Kin...When I was a child I lived in a street off the King's Road at what is called World's End. When I went back there in the 1980s and saw a whole lot of red brick towers that I didn't remember, I asked someone what had been there before exactly: "A community" he said, without hesitationzmkchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08972549292961948240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4905080602885676490.post-13308267534099266562017-06-20T00:40:08.180+02:002017-06-20T00:40:08.180+02:00I think the professor is right. There is a real sc...I think the professor is right. There is a real schism between the Europhile middle classes and the working classes who feel far more of an affinity with the anglophone world of Australia, USA etc.<br /><br />One of the things that the EU referendum did was expose the contempt many middle class people have for the working classes. They'd been pretty PC and tight-lipped since the egalitarian 60s, but suddenly it was open season. <br /><br />As someone from a working class background (but who still gets accused by middle class friends of being "too posh"), I felt very much the outsider amongst my peers. I knew exactly why people voted to leave the EU and although I didn't agree with all of their reasons, I didn't think they were, to use the most popular phrase of the day, <i>morons</i> or automatic racists. They were simply trying to preserve a type of community that exists outside the whims of the free market - one that is marked by continuity and communality. Middle class people aren't motivated by that to the same degree. <br />Steerforthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07627936539372313828noreply@blogger.com